| The Great Euro 2004 Discussion |
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26th April 2004, 07:17 PM |
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| The great Euro 2004 thread |
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AFCA 1900
User Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: AMSTERDAM
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I think it's about time for a special thread about Oranje and their 'road to Portugal'. Let's continue to use this thread for discussions about the men in orange during the tourney.
Holland will play its first real test game for Euro 2004 on Wednesday: a friendly against Greece in Eindhoven's Philips Stadium.
As usual, due to the intensity of a European championship, the KNVB has hired a second assistant for coach Dick Advocaat. During the qualification campaign one assistant (Willem van Hanegem) was deemed enough. But for the tourney itself a second assistant is usually added to the staff. The KNVB reportedly had Ruud Gullit in mind for this, but he signed at Feyenoord and was therefore no longer available. Marco van Basten and Johan Neeskens said "no thank you". But an extra assistant was finally found today: Advocaat and Van Hanegem will be assisted by... former Ajax coach Jan Wouters, who was also Advocaat's assistant at the Rangers in Glasgow.
Last edited by AFCA 1900 on 2nd June 2004 at 12:34 PM.
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26th April 2004, 07:26 PM |
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Bertrand
Vak 425 !!!!!!
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFCA 1900
I think it's about time for a special thread about Oranje and their 'road to Portugal'. Let's continue to use this thread for discussions about the men in orange during the tourney.
Holland will play its first real test game for Euro 2004 on Wednesday: a friendly against Greece in Eindhoven's Philips Stadium.
As usual, due to the intensity of a European championship, the KNVB has hired a second assistant for coach Dick Advocaat. During the qualification campaign one assistant (Willem van Hanegem) was deemed enough. But for the tourney itself a second assistant is usually added to the staff. The KNVB reportedly had Ruud Gullit in mind for this, but he signed at Feyenoord and was therefore no longer available. Marco van Basten and Johan Neeskens said "no thank you". But an extra assistant was finally found today: Advocaat and Van Hanegem will be assisted by... former Ajax coach Jan Wouters, who was also Advocaat's assistant at the Rangers in Glasgow.
I'm just going to enjoy Holland victory so much. The last WC was shit because no oranje were there. But this time it'll rock !!!
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26th April 2004, 07:52 PM |
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per
philanthropist
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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And don't forget the endless flair and natural flow of lovely Sweden's play.......aaaaaah who am I kidding?
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26th April 2004, 08:33 PM |
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AFCA 1900
User Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: AMSTERDAM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bertrand
I'm just going to enjoy Holland victory so much. The last WC was shit because no oranje were there. But this time it'll rock !!!
Believe me, mate: there is absolutely no way in the world that Holland will win the trophy in Portugal. Absolutely no way whatsoever. Simply not good enough. Too many players are slightly too old now, the youngsters are not ready yet and we only have one world class defender (Stam). Quarter final - and that's it.
We were good enough for the World Cup in 1998 and perhaps good enough for the Euro 2000 final (kind of unlucky against Italy at the time). It should have happened back then. Now it's too late (or too early, for the Van der Vaart generation).
Last edited by AFCA 1900 on 26th April 2004 at 08:37 PM.
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26th April 2004, 08:47 PM |
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nederman
French Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: France (Normandie)
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They are in a strong group, but I hope they will do something there... 
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27th April 2004, 04:21 AM |
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TST
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Boston
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Interesting post AFCA. Do you really believe Holland doesn't stand a chance, or are you purposely trying to keep your expectations to a minimum, so that possible elimination won't hit you that hard? I personally think that Holland does stand a chance, though it does all depend on the youngsters. If one of the new guys steps up at the right moment, and gives that extra spark that this Dutch team so desperately needs, i think they do have enough quality to go all the way. We still have the best striking force in Europe, our midfield is world class as well, but does need to step up (it's time for Seedorf to finally disprove his critics) and if Heitinga is able to keep up, our defense isn't that weak.
Ironically, i think the first game is the most important for this team, and it just so happens to be vs our good friends from the East 
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27th April 2004, 05:51 AM |
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AFCA 1900
User Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: AMSTERDAM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TST
Interesting post AFCA. Do you really believe Holland doesn't stand a chance, or are you purposely trying to keep your expectations to a minimum, so that possible elimination won't hit you that hard?
I mean it. Seriously.
An elimination won't hit me hard in the first place, for the simple reason that I am only moderately interested in the national team. During a major summer tourney I usually 'get into the groove' and become more fanatical. But I don't even bother to switch the TV on for the average qualifier or friendly. I just don't really care. So it's not necessary for me to fool myself by telling myself that they won't accomplish anything, if only because I have the attitude and view of journalist.
I just seriously think that this generation of Holland players is not as good as many of us think they are. I mean: the semi final at Euro 2000 was one of the last really good games this Oranje crop played. They were unlucky and went out on pennos. But what have we showed the world since? One of the most historic failures to qualify by a high quality team in the history of football and a piss-poor qualification campaign for Euro 2004. For almost four years now Holland only convinced in two games against a country from the 'B category' (Austria) and a friendly against Germany.
Apart from those games we blew it in every game against teams better than Latvia or Luxembourg. We did beat Malta and Estonia, alright, but failed miserably against Ireland, Portugal and the Czech Republic. I know we could beat Ireland on a good day, but Portugal and the Czech Republic simply have a little bit more quality than Holland - simple as that.
Holland can still be pretty good if they give everything and behave like grown up people. But there's a handful of participants (Portugal, Czech Republic, Spain, France) that are just a bit better than us and - most importantly - have a far better 'tournament mentality'. Holland will look good in at least one game. But somewhere along the way we will always f#ck up in at least one game, or whack three penalties into the second tier. And since you will have to make it through a bunch of knock-out rounds in order to win the trophy we will always go flat on our faces somewhere along the way.
That's how God created us, apparently. It's a fact of nature, which will even keep us from winning stuff if we do have the best team (1974), let alone if we don't (2004).
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27th April 2004, 09:51 AM |
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aveslacker
Once and future kings
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Athens, Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFCA 1900
I mean it. Seriously.
...
Holland can still be pretty good if they give everything and behave like grown up people. But there's a handful of participants (Portugal, Czech Republic, Spain, France) that are just a bit better than us and - most importantly - have a far better 'tournament mentality'.
I don't know if that argument works. Portugal and France crashed out of the group stage of the last WC. Spain did well to make it to the group stage. The Czechs might have some steel.
But Portugal's performance in big events has left a lot to be desired - true, they reached the semis in 2000, but so did Holland. Spain has a long and glorious legacy of underachieving in big tournaments. And keep in mind that, other than a two year run from 98 (when they hosted) to 00, France have been known more for their stutters than their successes.
Group A could just as easily send Greece and Russia to the next round as Spain and Portugal.
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox, and just say that if nothing else happens, I hope Holland beats Germany. That's all i want to see.
EDIT: I cleaned up some typos.
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27th April 2004, 10:19 AM |
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Fridge
Quiz Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: NZ
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I am always eternally optimistic about any Dutch team's chances, (maybe because I never see any of their games?).
If I recall correctly, the last three major tournaments Holland has been in they went out on penalties. Therefore the answer lies in practising penalties... surely it's that simple 
To suggest Holland has a bad tournament mentality is also a bit strange to me, as it would seem to me that when they actually reach a tournament, they lift their game, or at least in comparison with friendly/qualifying performances. Also, to mention Spain as being a team with a better tournament mentality than Holland is laughable, given their remarkable record of managing to choke upon arrival at a major event.
Personally, I think the core of the team is just a little too old. However, if they can get through to the quarter-finals, anything could happen, provided they don't let the game wind up as a draw.
Hopefully the older members of the squad will treat this tournament as their last hurrah and really get stuck in, although my Dad continously assures me this is not the Dutch mentality, but I can always hope.
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27th April 2004, 01:55 PM |
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SulliStyle
Super résistant
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Belgium
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I think that Holland must play with young players (like Sneijder. Van Der Vaart, Robben or others) because the guys like F.de boer, Seedorf, Reiziger haven't got enough motivation to play with national team.
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27th April 2004, 03:14 PM |
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aveslacker
Once and future kings
Joined: Feb 2004
Location: Athens, Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SulliStyle
I think that Holland must play with young players (like Sneijder. Van Der Vaart, Robben or others) because the guys like F.de boer, Seedorf, Reiziger haven't got enough motivation to play with national team.
I agree. Personally, I'm not a big fan of Kuivert and Seedorf either. Put some of the young, hungry guys like Sneijder, VdV, or even Robben (if he's fit) in there. Let 'em run around. Maybe bring on the older guys as second half subs or something.
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27th April 2004, 07:15 PM |
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TattooQ
FootE & music Gormandizer
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Media,PA
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Looking forward to watching the matches this summer. I start needing my footie fix again by June 1st so it will be nice to have the Oranje to take me up to the resumption of Ajax training.Combine this with silly season and beach weather and I should be feeling no withdrawl pain. I think the present crop of youngsters will help take the Dutch as far as the quarters, though I would love to see better.
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28th April 2004, 07:42 AM |
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Fridge
Quiz Master
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: NZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SulliStyle
I think that Holland must play with young players (like Sneijder. Van Der Vaart, Robben or others) because the guys like F.de boer, Seedorf, Reiziger haven't got enough motivation to play with national team.
I think that is correct, but only to a point. Yes Holland must include young players in the team, but you cannot expect to get anywhere if you just drop the core of experienced players.
Furthermore, there aren't that many young players ready to play for the national team, just those you've mentioned, with the addition of Heitinga and possibly De Jong.
Sure, you should include those players to give the team some enthusiasism and spark, but also keep some older players (Stam, De Boer, Kluivert, Davids) to provide leadership and experience.
The lack of experience is one thing that may have cost Ajax a bit this year. The same mistake should not be made by the national team.
Holland can go all the way.
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28th April 2004, 09:13 PM |
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Johnny scooooooooores! |
Post #14 |
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AFCA 1900
User Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: AMSTERDAM
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Final score in Eindhoven: Holland 4, Greece 0.
Goals for Holland scored by Makaay, Zenden, Heitinga and Van Hooydonk. Yes Sir: our man Johnny netted his first one in orange! On a Rafaël van der Vaart free kick he nicely nodded home, totally unmarked. Very good for him! Well done, Johnny.
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28th April 2004, 09:23 PM |
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TattooQ
FootE & music Gormandizer
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Media,PA
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Kudos to Johnny and Raffie.  A similar doel on Sunday would be very much appreciated.
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